tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7583674511519808833.post544348759607976491..comments2024-03-27T00:26:19.644+00:00Comments on Rosa Rubicondior: Ken Ham - Fraud or Fool?Rosa Rubicondiorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06063268216781988588noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7583674511519808833.post-85278598427929987732014-07-23T00:43:12.646+01:002014-07-23T00:43:12.646+01:00I just read this blog article written by Rosa Rubi...I just read this blog article written by Rosa Rubicondior (who apparentluy must have managed to use her IPS 2 system without problems): http://rosarubicondior.blogspot.se/2014/07/the-sacred-conclusion.html .<br /><br />Anyhow: In that article Rosa describes how an IPS 1 "thinker" reasons/argues.<br /><br />A scientifically educated person (like Rosa) says: Here are the facts. What conclusion can we draw from them?<br /><br />But the true believer using his or her IPS 1 cognitive system says: Look, here is the conclusion. What facts can we find to support it? <br /><br />And if the true believer can't find any facts/data to support his conclusion, then he makes up fake facts. Lying for non-believers is often seen as OK for a true believer using his IPS 1 cognitve system, at least if it's done in the name of God - and for God (i.e. to offer some "help" to God)<br /><br />In Islam this is even recommended; see: http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1186869/pg1 .<br /><br />A quote from that last article: Taqiyya and Kitman<br /><br />Muslim scholars teach that Muslims should generally be truthful to each other, unless the purpose of lying is to "smooth over differences."<br /><br />There are two forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, taqiyya and kitman. <br /><br />These circumstances are typically those that advance the cause Islam - in some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them. <br />Helmer von Helvetehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02136543309048013677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7583674511519808833.post-66647244007759511152014-07-22T23:59:22.193+01:002014-07-22T23:59:22.193+01:00@Unknown: Of course emotions and feelings can both...@Unknown: Of course emotions and feelings can both strengthen and weaken a belief. That goes for all of us. But that doesn't automatically make my statement ridiculous. <br /><br />We have two information/stimulus processing systems in our brains. Let's call them IPS 1 and IPS 2. See for example this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_process_theory . <br /><br />IPS 1 is the child's unconscious, emotional, prelogical (some say non-logical), preverbal (some say non-verbal) intuitive, associative information processing system. Also known as magical and religious thinking; see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_thinking .<br /><br />IPS 2 is the mature brain's conscious, verbal, logical, analyzing, non-associative way of thinking. "The language of science" so to say.<br /><br />Look at this table:<br /><br />A. Characteristics of IPS 1 cognition:<br /><br />Unconscious reasoning; Implicit; Automatic; Low effort; Large capacity; Generalistic (= Details aren't important); Rapid; Default process; Associative; Contextualized; Domain specific; Evolutionarily old; Nonverbal; Includes recognition, perception, orientation; Modular cognition; Independent of working memory; Non-logical; Parallel. <br /><br />B. Characteristics of IPS 2 cognition:<br /> <br />Conscious reasoning; Explicit; Controlled; High Effort; Small capacity; Specialistic (= Details are important); Slow; Inhibitory; Rule based; Abstract; Domain general; Evolutionarily recent; Linked to language; Includes rule following, comparisons, and weighing of options; Fluid intelligence; Limited by working memory capacity; Logical; Serial.<br /><br />When the brain matures, the IPS 2 is taking over more and more cognitive functions from IPS 1. But in some people this transition process seems to be disturbed. They get stuck in the IPS 1 system. They cling to IPS 1 thinking even in adulthood. Such individuals are often called woos or true believers. For more information, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True-believer_syndrome and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_True_Believer . <br /><br />BTW: Have you noiticed that dyslexia is very common among woos and true believers? Maybe this lack of verbal/reading skills is one important reason why so many true believers are dyslectic? For more aspects of that intriguing question; see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicameralism_(psychology) . <br /><br />@Rosa: This blog article is about Ken Ham. Have you seen this article: http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2014/07/22/ken-ham-calls-u-s-space-program-a-waste-since-the-bible-tells-us-that-alien-life-doesnt-exist-and-would-be-damned-anyway/ ? <br /><br />A quote from that article: Young-Earth creationist Ken Ham has said plenty of dumb things when it comes to evolution on our planet, but in a new post on his website, Around the World with Ken Ham, he’s extended his lunacy to studies of the solar system and Universe.<br /><br />Another quote: It gets worse, even by Ham-ian standards. There can’t be aliens—at least smart ones—because they’d be damned to Hell!<br /><br />And yet another quote: An understanding of the gospel makes it clear that salvation through Christ is only for the Adamic race—human beings who are all descendants of Adam.<br /><br />So to sum up: Ken Ham is apparently a person who got stuck in his IPS 1 thinking. I recommend Mr. Ham to donate his brain to neuroscience. He will not need a brain in his Heaven. Helmer von Helvetehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02136543309048013677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7583674511519808833.post-69729074398036361172014-07-22T08:10:20.426+01:002014-07-22T08:10:20.426+01:00>While this may be true in some instances of ps...>While this may be true in some instances of psychology, it does not mean it can be applied to all people who choose to believe in God. ><br /><br />People who believe in God have a different psychology? <br /><br />Does this apply to people who believe in any god or only those who believe in whichever god you are referring to?Rosa Rubicondiorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06063268216781988588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7583674511519808833.post-6662031364012158652014-07-22T05:46:57.829+01:002014-07-22T05:46:57.829+01:00"Emotions pave the way for associative thinki..."Emotions pave the way for associative thinking, i.e. if a thought, or belief, makes you feel good, then this thought/belief is seen as the right one, the true one."<br />That is a ridiculous statement with so many flaws when applied to believers - sorry. While this may be true in some instances of psychology, it does not mean it can be applied to all people who choose to believe in God. You think you know why we all believe in God but it goes much further than it making us feel good, because sometimes that is NOT true, and at times it can be very hard.<br /><br />Emotions can actually make it very easy to give up our beliefs, so again your use of this statement is flawed. Think of someone who has lost a loved one and blames God for their loss, and decides to turn away. This is an action steered by emotion is it not? Think of someone who is is upset about not having a great life and wonders why they are so hard up - they then decide God must not exist. Once again steered by emotion. <br /><br />Therefore many non-believers also use emotion to not believe.<br />Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11538133776329817337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7583674511519808833.post-35924766777310286872014-06-30T09:12:05.184+01:002014-06-30T09:12:05.184+01:00Rosa: You ask this question: Is Ken Ham a fool of ...Rosa: You ask this question: Is Ken Ham a fool of a fraud?<br /><br />Here's my answer: I believe he is both a fool AND a fraud. Genuine true believers use their brains as if they were children. They are guided by emotions (like children are), not by logic. For a true believer life is full of magic and supernatural episodes. <br /><br />Emotions pave the way for associative thinking, i.e. if a thought, or belief, makes you feel good, then this thought/belief is seen as the right one, the true one.<br /><br />A key verse in the Bible regarding magical thinking is Psalm 139:16: "but with your own eyes you saw my body being formed. Even before I was born, you had written in your book everything I would do."<br /><br />So that's the way God works. He has decided and planned our lives in every detail. <br /><br />To believe such bullshit, you have to believe in magical thinking. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_thinking .Helmer von Helvetehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02136543309048013677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7583674511519808833.post-81435145744946893082014-06-30T01:10:39.840+01:002014-06-30T01:10:39.840+01:00It's Ken Ham'n'eggs a fool or a fraud?...It's Ken Ham'n'eggs a fool or a fraud? I'd call him a genius at making money out of his dupes. What amazes me though is that there are people so desperate to not believe in evolution that they're frantic to give the likes of him or Ray Discomfort their money. They could just read up the science for free.Bill the Butcherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08436195659154078021noreply@blogger.com