tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7583674511519808833.post8608923166476905577..comments2024-03-29T01:45:45.002+00:00Comments on Rosa Rubicondior: God's Inerrant Omniscience RevisitedRosa Rubicondiorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06063268216781988588noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7583674511519808833.post-41859563587923557742013-10-19T10:17:17.460+01:002013-10-19T10:17:17.460+01:00Absolutely. The point of the blog was to show how ...Absolutely. The point of the blog was to show how religion requires compartmentalised thinking in order to believe two mutually contradictory things simultaneously,and believing in free will and the presence of an inerrant omniscient god at the same time is as good an example of that as it gets.<br /><br />It neatly illustrated the delusional and intellectually dishonest nature of religion and yet no Christian, Jew or Muslim dare admit they don't believe one or the other. To be religious is to be delusional and dishonest.<br /><br />Rosa Rubicondiorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06063268216781988588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7583674511519808833.post-78735958175424726812013-10-19T05:17:19.985+01:002013-10-19T05:17:19.985+01:00This is essentially a variant on "can your go...This is essentially a variant on "can your god make a rock that is so heavy he can't lift it?" An all powerful god should be able to do so. The Believer's reaction is to simply marvel at the idea that their god is so amazing he actually can do this impossible thing. That we can't understand how this impossible thing is actually impossible simply reinforces how small we are in comparison to How Great Thou Art. <br /><br />Can an omniscient god know you were going to have waffles tomorrow but will change your mind at the last moment? Of course it can. It's omniscient. Does this create paradoxes and bring in to question free will? Not at all. A Believer can simply state that their omniscient god is capable of knowing what choices we will make even though he gave us free will. He's THAT awesome and amazing. <br /><br />It's not plausible to reason with unreasonable people. Attempting to do so simply points out you too are being unreasonable. ZachsMindhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11736997572266455429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7583674511519808833.post-62027619864807032872013-08-12T19:09:28.843+01:002013-08-12T19:09:28.843+01:00In other words, you aren't actually going to s...In other words, you aren't actually going to say what your 'incontrovertible evidence' is. Strange how given the chance of worldwide fame for being the first person in history to prove the existence of any god, and so of winning converts by the million, so many theists suddenly become very shy and decide to keep their proof to themselves.<br /><br />Further preaching and spam will be removed.<br />Rosa Rubicondiorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06063268216781988588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7583674511519808833.post-35884336846847627142013-08-12T18:57:56.405+01:002013-08-12T18:57:56.405+01:00In response to my last comment I might hear, "...In response to my last comment I might hear, "So why don't you tell us, Chris, how this works. You said it's a wonderful paradox (apparent contradiction) but you didn't say how it works in order to defend your faith."<br /><br />I've found that debating a topic that even Christians disagree upon with those such as yourself who are perishing to be an exercise in futility. 1Cor 1:18 tells us that those who are perishing consider the word of the cross to be folly, and in my experience, no matter how carefully and thoughtfully I argue, I'm always wrong. The rebuttal is almost exclusively filled with logical fallacies and unnecessary mocking. Not exactly an open-minded unbiased response, and it's very wearisome for a guy with chronic fatigue.<br /><br />But I've debated this topic many times on forums such as CARM.org, OpenAirOutreach.com, my personal blog and other blogs. Feel free to search 'cdevidal' on those forums. I've been internet debating for about twelve years so I've built quite a history.<br /><br />If you would like to come to know the God of the Bible, then we can talk. Proof at NeedGod.com.<br /><br />Suffice it to say this is not an unanswerable question. It is a gloriously complex problem that reveals the great depths of our Creator, but it is not unanswerable.<br /><br />Oh and I'll save you time: "Chris, you're wrong! Because [circular reasoning], [moving the goalposts], [post hoc ergo propter hoc], [strawman] HAHAHAHAHA!"<br /><br />Winky faceSlowBrohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06154938070496981256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7583674511519808833.post-4222324069282890162013-08-12T16:50:11.289+01:002013-08-12T16:50:11.289+01:00The wonderful paradox of human freedom and God'...The wonderful paradox of human freedom and God's sovereignty is one of my favorite doctrines to ponder. Rather than seeing it as a faith-killer it's a faith-builder. We humans wouldn't invent a God we couldn't understand!<br /><br />That verse in Ecclesiastes is a great find, by the way.SlowBrohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06154938070496981256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7583674511519808833.post-43753247773513568182013-07-21T12:15:54.996+01:002013-07-21T12:15:54.996+01:00Not only does God being omniscient contradict with...Not only does God being omniscient contradict with our free will, it also contradicts with God being righteouss and benevolent/kind. If God knows everything, he also knows who will become (or stay) atheist or non-christian. So He also knows they'll go to hell (rev 21:8).<br /><br />That is, if he exists..Thinking Dutchmanhttps://twitter.com/ThinkingDutchmnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7583674511519808833.post-38476171489533796552013-07-18T19:33:13.136+01:002013-07-18T19:33:13.136+01:00BTW, Manuel, readers can see that you are the expe...BTW, Manuel, readers can see that you are the expelled seminarian, Manuel de Dios Agosto, by reading how we exposed you in <a href="http://rosarubicondior.blogspot.com/2013/05/sacerdotus-fraud-exposed.html" rel="nofollow">Sacerdotus - The Fraud Exposed.</a> It has screen shots and everything.<br /><br />I really think it's time you stopped abusing that poor kid who happens to have the misfortune to have the same name as you. With your record it's probably not the wisest move you could make.<br /><br />You're welcome. <br />Rosa Rubicondiorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06063268216781988588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7583674511519808833.post-40932560785270175442013-06-14T08:45:52.914+01:002013-06-14T08:45:52.914+01:00The question was, can you make a choice this god d...The question was, can you make a choice this god doesn't know you will make or, can you choose something other than what this god knows you will choose.<br /><br />If not, your freedom is constrained by this god's prior knowledge and is not free, but pre-ordained. If you can, this god is not omniscient.<br /><br />No one asked whether you can make a choice per se.<br /><br />If the argument is flawed you should have had little difficulty in answering one or other of the questions posed, yet you did not do so.<br />Rosa Rubicondiorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06063268216781988588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7583674511519808833.post-49109690392834650242013-06-14T04:21:07.175+01:002013-06-14T04:21:07.175+01:00I agree with you. You're free to make whatever...I agree with you. You're free to make whatever choice you're going to make (eggs or french toast). In this argument, God is not imposing his will on your choice, he just already knows what your choice will be. <br /><br />I do not believe in God, but I also believe this argument is flawed. Knowingness and imposing will are separate things. Roof Beam Readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06792884580084363046noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7583674511519808833.post-85015009087007066222013-06-03T08:43:45.440+01:002013-06-03T08:43:45.440+01:00There is indeed a dilemma, but not of my creation....There is indeed a dilemma, but not of my creation. That was created by those who claimed their god is inerrantly omniscient and that they have free will.<br /><br />It doesn't become false just because it's embarrassing for those who hold those two mutually exclusive and contradictory views simultaneously. It simply means that one or both of those views must be false.<br /><br />Which do you think it is?<br />Rosa Rubicondiorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06063268216781988588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7583674511519808833.post-56336275472883411232013-06-03T08:38:32.538+01:002013-06-03T08:38:32.538+01:00By the way, I did explain it in the blog you are c...By the way, I <b>did</b> explain it in the blog you are comment upon. Did you not read it?<br />Rosa Rubicondiorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06063268216781988588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7583674511519808833.post-10101884231054739742013-06-03T08:36:06.366+01:002013-06-03T08:36:06.366+01:00>Please explain how God's knowledge of our ...>Please explain how God's knowledge of our actions prohibit us from exercising free will. <<br />You can do that for yourself by trying to answer the simple questions which I asked. In case you missed them, here they are again:<br /><br /><b>Give a single example of someone exercising free will by not doing something an omniscient, inerrant, eternal god would always have known they would do.<br /><br />Or give a single example of someone exercising free will by doing something an omniscient, inerrant, eternal god would not always have known they would do.</b><br /><br />Perhaps you could write the answers out for me.<br />Rosa Rubicondiorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06063268216781988588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7583674511519808833.post-65270902239902675672013-06-03T03:06:08.817+01:002013-06-03T03:06:08.817+01:00You've created a false dilemma.You've created a false dilemma. Elizabeth Bevinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08004039055631632961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7583674511519808833.post-47615267633224886942013-06-03T02:56:39.274+01:002013-06-03T02:56:39.274+01:00Please explain how God's knowledge of our acti...Please explain how God's knowledge of our actions prohibit us from exercising free will. <br /><br />You seem to be asserting the fallacy that free will and omniscience are mutually exclusive. <br /> <br />There is nothing to prove as I don't agree your argument is logical.<br />Elizabeth Bevinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08004039055631632961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7583674511519808833.post-15507769292716473662013-04-11T09:22:26.464+01:002013-04-11T09:22:26.464+01:00Still desperately trying for a diversion, eh, Manu...Still desperately trying for a diversion, eh, Manuel?<br /><br />Redefining words won't work either.<br /><br />The task you have to complete before 17:30 BST today is:<br /><br /><b>Give a single example of someone exercising free will by not doing something an omniscient, inerrant, eternal god would always have known they would do.<br /><br />Or give a single example of someone exercising free will by doing something an omniscient, inerrant, eternal god would not always have known they would do.</b><br /><br />Once you failed at this task, as I've no doubt you will again, I have several more prepared for you. You see, the problem with being a lying, braggart and a fraud is that you are so easily exposed by very simple questions - which is, incidentally, why I recruited you to help discredit religion about a year ago, your narcissm and stupidity are such a good combination.<br /><br />By the way, I expect people will have already noticed how you've shown you don't believe the superstition you push either but this particular failure will demonstrate that beyond any reasonable doubt.<br /><br />Good luck.<br />Rosa Rubicondiorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06063268216781988588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7583674511519808833.post-53302446818345438192013-04-11T03:33:54.206+01:002013-04-11T03:33:54.206+01:00Every time you mention that kid you just provide f...Every time you mention that kid you just provide further evidence. Also, the internet does cache pages.. just saying. I already answered your questions:<br /><br /><br />The questions do not make sense because you are not applying the terms correctly. <br />Free will means simply that - Free will. We can do whatever within the laws of physics in our universe. God being omniscient has no bearing on the choices we make because free will specifically deals with the opportunity to make a choice that God already knows we will make. It is not a hard concept to grasp. Your questions are what's called non sequitur. Your challenge crumbles :)<br /><br />Free will means that you have the ability to make choices. This is simply what that term means. God knowing the choice and its outcome has no bearing on the ability to make said choice.<br /><br />As shown, your challenge is easy to answer. Sacerdotushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04558048488785769126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7583674511519808833.post-42281693393491017232013-04-10T17:14:44.933+01:002013-04-10T17:14:44.933+01:00So you're going for the diversion as expected,...So you're going for the diversion as expected, eh, Manuel?<br /><br />Will you be taking the second chance I gave you or was that it?<br /><br />The question you were asked was:<br /><br /><b>Give a single example of someone exercising free will by not doing something an omniscient, inerrant, eternal god would always have known they would do.<br /><br />Or give a single example of someone exercising free will by doing something an omniscient, inerrant, eternal god would not always have known they would do.</b><br /><br />I'll call it tomorrow if you still can't meet this simple challenge. You <b>do</b> understand that failure to do so will confirm that you know your faith is phoney and just something you are using to excuse your abusive behaviour and to try to hide your personality disorder. Just something for you to ponder on for the next 24 hours from 17:30 BST today (BST is GMT+1 if you're still confused about how time zones work).<br /><br />Rosa Rubicondiorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06063268216781988588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7583674511519808833.post-40258605435312426802013-04-10T09:47:53.028+01:002013-04-10T09:47:53.028+01:00Are you still going to be abusing that child Manue...Are you still going to be abusing that child Manuel? My name is Michael. I'm sure you have seen my blog post detailing your lies and how to report your child abuse. Anyhow... The questions do not make sense because you are not applying the terms correctly. <br /><br />Free will means simply that - Free will. We can do whatever within the laws of physics in our universe. God being omniscient has no bearing on the choices we make because free will specifically deals with the opportunity to make a choice that God already knows we will make. It is not a hard concept to grasp. Your questions are what's called non sequitur. Your challenge crumbles :) Sacerdotushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04558048488785769126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7583674511519808833.post-89536243778207760472013-04-10T08:45:46.388+01:002013-04-10T08:45:46.388+01:00Link merely goes to your blog where, after the usu...Link merely goes to your blog where, after the usual give-away ad hominem, you boast that you could refute it, but never do so. Is that your idea of a refutation?<br /><br />Readers can see your laughable failure by clicking on this link <a href="http://www.sacerdotus.com/2013/04/gods-inerrant-omniscience-revisited.html" rel="nofollow">If they want to see your infantile idea of a refutation</a>.<br /><br />The question you were challenged to answer was, as readers can see above:<br /><br /><b>Give a single example of someone exercising free will by not doing something an omniscient, inerrant, eternal god would always have known they would do.<br /><br />Or give a single example of someone exercising free will by doing something an omniscient, inerrant, eternal god would not always have known they would do.</b><br /><br />As I pointed out, another little problem for Christians of course, is that if they can't answer these questions they are admitting, if only to themselves, that they know their 'faith' is phoney. <br /><br />Should readers take your spectacular failure to answer than as an admission by you that your faith is phoney? It would certainly explain how you use a pretence of piety as an excuse for your bizarre and abusive behaviour.<br /><br />Would you like another go at addressing these questions and so meeting my challenge or is the above failure to do so your best effort?<br /><br />BTW, Manuel, will you be publicly retracting your previous lie that you couldn't post here because you were banned, or will I need to draw people's attention too it again?<br />Rosa Rubicondiorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06063268216781988588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7583674511519808833.post-40532005629238433902013-04-10T01:52:05.480+01:002013-04-10T01:52:05.480+01:00"God's Inerrant Omniscience Revisited&quo..."God's Inerrant Omniscience Revisited" - Critique<br /> http://shar.es/dPMzt Sacerdotushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04558048488785769126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7583674511519808833.post-92057308596988120752013-04-07T21:18:06.096+01:002013-04-07T21:18:06.096+01:00The Free Will defense is the Christian blaming the...The Free Will defense is the Christian blaming the victim for their god's abusive, sadistic behavior. Like an abused partner they will say the blame for their suffering is their own fault and please don't blame the abuser because he is an angry and jealous god who will hurt us even more because he is good... no, really, he is, we promise, if you just got to know him the way we do... you'd see he is just misunderstood. It is really a sick and twisted way to view the universe and life. Robert Karmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07085698927157870723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7583674511519808833.post-19381851314197936382013-04-07T18:38:02.984+01:002013-04-07T18:38:02.984+01:00I follow you on twitter, another excellent postI follow you on twitter, another excellent postAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7583674511519808833.post-26132357571223573482013-04-07T15:50:09.526+01:002013-04-07T15:50:09.526+01:00This also applies to prayer. What is the point of ...This also applies to prayer. What is the point of praying? Convince the deity to change its mind? But if the deity is omniscient, then it already knows that someone will be praying for something to (not) happen and therefore there is no real need to pray in the fist place. That also applies to "free will". If the deity already knows that I am going to do that certain thing, I really have no choice and my free will is actually not free at all.<br />At the end of the day, by this premise, the whole human existence is just a play with the deity already knowing every single line. Ultimately an exercise of futilityAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7583674511519808833.post-39010911543819000472013-04-06T22:49:23.215+01:002013-04-06T22:49:23.215+01:00Will you be dealing with the question soon or are ...Will you be dealing with the question soon or are readers to be treated to more evasion and prevarication first?Rosa Rubicondiorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06063268216781988588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7583674511519808833.post-54345882544310012602013-04-06T21:57:19.503+01:002013-04-06T21:57:19.503+01:00It's true that much of the language in the Bib...It's true that much of the language in the Bible suggests free will exists. In fact, much of *your* language does the same. Moreover, our laws seem based on the idea that free will exists.<br /><br />It would be great if you could let us all know whether you think free will exists.<br /><br />It certainly is an interesting paradox, but not one that is unique to Christianity or religion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com