Saturday, 21 July 2012

No Faith In The Bible

Why was faith not good enough for the Bible's prophets?

Every single prophet or apostle of Jesus, when they bothered to explain why they believed in a god, quoted evidence. It seems they were never expected, and never expected themselves, to rely on faith alone.

Here's a random sample:

ProphetAlleged EvidenceReference
AbrahamAfter these things the word of the Lord came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.Genesis 15:1
MosesAnd the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. And when the Lord saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.Exodus 3:2-4
JoshuaAnd the Lord said unto Moses, Behold, thy days approach that thou must die: call Joshua, and present yourselves in the tabernacle of the congregation, that I may give him a charge. And Moses and Joshua went, and presented themselves in the tabernacle of the congregation. And the Lord appeared in the tabernacle in a pillar of a cloud: and the pillar of the cloud stood over the door of the tabernacle.Deuteronomy 31:14-15
SamuelAnd it came to pass at that time, when Eli was laid down in his place, and his eyes began to wax dim, that he could not see; And ere the lamp of God went out in the temple of the Lord, where the ark of God was, and Samuel was laid down to sleep; That the Lord called Samuel: and he answered, Here am I.

And he ran unto Eli, and said, Here am I; for thou calledst me. And he said, I called not; lie down again. And he went and lay down.

And the Lord called yet again, Samuel. And Samuel arose and went to Eli, and said, Here am I; for thou didst call me. And he answered, I called not, my son; lie down again. Now Samuel did not yet know the Lord, neither was the word of the Lord yet revealed unto him.

And the Lord called Samuel again the third time. And he arose and went to Eli, and said, Here am I; for thou didst call me. And Eli perceived that the Lord had called the child. Therefore Eli said unto Samuel, Go, lie down: and it shall be, if he call thee, that thou shalt say, Speak, Lord; for thy servant heareth. So Samuel went and lay down in his place.

And the Lord came, and stood, and called as at other times, Samuel, Samuel. Then Samuel answered, Speak; for thy servant heareth. And the Lord said to Samuel, Behold, I will do a thing in Israel, at which both the ears of every one that heareth it shall tingle.
1 Samuel 3:2-11
DavidTherefore David enquired of the Lord, saying, Shall I go and smite these Philistines? And the Lord said unto David, Go, and smite the Philistines, and save Keilah.

Then David enquired of the Lord yet again. And the Lord answered him and said, Arise, go down to Keilah; for I will deliver the Philistines into thine hand.
1 Samuel 23:2

1 Samuel 23:4
IsaiahIn the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory. And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke.

Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.

Isaiah 6:1-4

Isaiah 6:8
JeremiahThe words of Jeremiah the son of Hilkiah, of the priests that were in Anathoth in the land of Benjamin: To whom the word of the Lord came in the days of Josiah the son of Amon king of Judah, in the thirteenth year of his reign. It came also in the days of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, unto the end of the eleventh year of Zedekiah the son of Josiah king of Judah, unto the carrying away of Jerusalem captive in the fifth month.

Then the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. Then said I, Ah, Lord God! behold, I cannot speak: for I am a child. But the Lord said unto me, Say not, I am a child: for thou shalt go to all that I shall send thee, and whatsoever I command thee thou shalt speak. Be not afraid of their faces: for I am with thee to deliver thee, saith the Lord.

Then the Lord put forth his hand, and touched my mouth. And the Lord said unto me, Behold, I have put my words in thy mouth.
Jeremiah 1:1-9
JonahSo Jonah went out of the city, and sat on the east side of the city, and there made him a booth, and sat under it in the shadow, till he might see what would become of the city. And the Lord God prepared a gourd, and made it to come up over Jonah, that it might be a shadow over his head, to deliver him from his grief. So Jonah was exceeding glad of the gourd.Jonah 4:5-6
JesusAnd Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.Matthew 3:16-17
And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out, Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God. And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him. And when the unclean spirit had torn him, and cried with a loud voice, he came out of him.

And they were all amazed, insomuch that they questioned among themselves, saying, What thing is this? what new doctrine is this? for with authority commandeth he even the unclean spirits, and they do obey him. And immediately his fame spread abroad throughout all the region round about Galilee.
Mark 1:21-28
PaulAnd as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.Acts 9:3-5

But not for Paul, obviously
(Love that attempt to assert intellectual property rights, though)
So, it seems God couldn't rely on these people's faith and knew he had to give them evidence to convince them. Or at least they felt they had to offer evidence to people, if only to lay claim to some sort of authority.

And these are the people on whom the god of the Bible supposedly relied to pass on the message that faith is all you need; that faith is a virtue; that a lack of faith is somehow a failure on your part.

Strange indeed then that these people all needed evidence, even Jesus himself, apparently.

It really should be quite obvious to anyone why the church demands we abandon reason and rely on 'faith' when, after 2000 years of pushing Christianity on people, it has never managed to come up with a single piece of definitive evidence for the god they threaten us with, nor a rational justification for the control they demand the right to exert through promulgation of fear of it, and the monopoly control of the supply of protective spells they claim save us from it.

For 'faith' read 'credulous gullibility'.

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  1. Don't forget 1 Kings 18

    Not only was proof demanded - those that could not produce it were slaughtered.

  2. So... I guess they were all slaughtered?

    1. Your comment appears to be unconnected to anything in the blog. Did you not read it?

    2. I think that comment was meant to be in response to the 1 Kings 18 verse :)

  3. Faith is a word whose meaning has suffered much since its first recorded practice till now. In the Bible, faith is first practiced long before a word (faith, belief) appears for it. Today we believe in the existence of electricity without seeing the stuff itself. How? By observing the evidence. But when it comes to Biblical faith, somehow the word, in theologians minds, must be "conveniently" REDEFINED! Why should this be. Genesis 15 is the first place a "faith" word (believed) is used to describe what Abram (Abraham's original name) had already been practicing. He didn't wait for there to be any word for people to argue over before discerning the evidence, knowing what must be DONE based on that evidence, and beginning to receive blessings as a result. The fact of an argument itself reveals doubt, and doubt is not faith. This Reply is NOT an apology for or argument about faith. I type a FYI for the sake of slightly nudging those who desire a pure heart in the direction of fruitful search. I never spoon fed my children (I rarely even give Scripture references), so I certainly won't spoon feed adults who are suppose to have minds of their own, with the ability to "PROVE ALL THINGS" on their own. This won't become an argument because I will only state it once. By the time any doubters take it upon themselves to argue about this, I will be long gone to something else constructive. Thank you.

    1. So why did all those biblical prophets require evidence yet we are expected to believe without any, and even despite evidence to the contrary?

      I don't think attempting to argue that the meaning of words has changed successfully avoids that question.

  4. I agree we must look at evidence, for or against our ideas.

  5. It does not seem that these instances in the christian book of mythology show a lack of faith on the parts of the characters in the stories, nor a request for confirmation of the fictitious deity by the characters in the stories.These are just instances where the deity of christian mythology displayed itself, without being requested, thereby affirming its existence. In the instances described it is the mythological deity that instigates its presentation to have something done or to convey something. It is not the character's need to resolve or affirm something by having the fictitious deity present itself.
    I'm sure you can find passages that demonstrate a lack of faith that requests an action by the metaphysical entity before full faith will be given, but these aren't them.

    1. The point I was making was that whoever wrote that stuff assumed these 'prophets' would need evidence. Why would that be if faith is at least as good as evidence and even trumps it?

    2. I can see your point, but in these partial texts I see simple relating of events without inference to perception by the characters, other than as affected after the events. The supernatural events themselves were an uncalled for, unannounced presentation by the supernatural entity, not instigated by the characters.
      If events were due to a lack of faith the sequence would be that the characters ask for the evidence before the events were presented. In these passages we simply have an event happening in the presence of the characters.


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A claim made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. Remember: your opinion is not an established fact unless corroborated.

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